Summary of IM Conver Regarding {}, SPchecked, reorged a tad, made more readable. Kept because I actually said some things in a way I’d meant to for a while but hadn’t actually before this point:

Snider: the key to sustainable living is no debt and a savings backup…once you have those two things you can start to make time over money. the point is that as long as you’re on the positive end of debt/hand-to-mouth then there is momentum there that gives you the freedom…it doesn’t mean having enough to retire or anything close, just being on the pos side vs. the neg side…people mess both up…they live in debt to get the things they "need" (want) NOW and work-save-work-save so they can someday "retire." both are flawed.

Hedwig: it all comes back to not consuming as much

Snider: yeah it does. sustainable.

Hedwig: to find other outlets in life to fill the

void. free outlets.

Snider: not getting brainwashed by marketing

Hedwig: creativity reigning

Snider: it’s not socialism….it’s sustainability for all; I’m not anti-capitalism, I’m anti-greed…

Hedwig: of course. capitalism is the only economy that holds the possibility of sustainability. where you can make your own choices. it’s not the system (it never is) it’s the people.

Snider: yeah exactly. technically socialism would create more sustainability for all, but greed takes over and that system get completely fubar’d. capitalism has natural checks and balances that (eventually) punishes greed. hard to see that sometimes tho, especially these days.

Hedwig: but socialism just forces people into sustainability and that’s just as evil as over marketing tricking people into greed, no?

Snider: well, not if everyone agreed to be under the socialist system. but that’s impossible at a national level

Hedwig: exactly

Snider: it can only work in communities. communes.

Hedwig: hippie style

Snider: yeah. voluntary involvement

Hedwig: and that’s cool with me. i’d do it. small scale. maybe. ok probably not.

Snider: well, here’s what we’ve done, we’ve decided to run our family that way. so we plan on giving generously to our adult children instead of making them wait until we croak and then getting a big pot, after the time when it could be of use to them.

Hedwig: right; our families are holding our inheritance until we are too well off to really need it or care that much!

Snider: IF one was to go into a commune situation, i would suggest leaving some money outside of it, for in case you ever want to leave it. have an amount that you are comfortable giving to the institution, given the trust that you have in it at the time you join it; and obviously all the work you do while in the commune would go back into it; but if you wanted to leave you’d have something to ‘fall back on.’